Megan Martin 0:00
This is talking small business with Kat Schmoyer. And Megan Martin, a podcast for creatives who like to keep it real about what it actually takes to grow an online business,

Kat Schmoyer 0:09
where competitors turned to biz besties, who chat daily, and now we’re bringing you into the conversation. Hey, y’all, we are back with another episode of talking Small Business cat here. And we actually just talked about this a little bit in our last episode, and Megan and I were just in the zone. And like, alright, we need to keep this conversation going. We mentioned in our last episode, which will link below on talking about a course versus a membership, we started talking a little bit about what’s called a value ladder. Both of us love talking about this, and we’re going to explain it. So if you’re listening, and you’re like, I have no idea what a value ladder is like, don’t worry, we’re gonna break it down. We love putting on our strategy brains and talking about not only the value ladders in our own businesses, and the ways that we like to curate our products and our offerings to create a value ladder, but also, we love helping our students and our coaching clients do this as well. So it’s a really fun, brainstorming type conversation. And that’s what we’re gonna have today. So, first of all, though, let’s set the tone Megane explain to everybody what is a value ladder.

Megan Martin 1:21
Awesome. Okay, so a value ladder. The term value ladder actually comes from Russell Brunson of Clickfunnels. So, if you’re here and you’re new to this digital space, Click Funnels is a tool that allows you to create and sell digital products. Russell Brunson is huge in the passive income world, you may love him, or you may really not like there’s lots of controversy around. Russell Brunson is and what he’s put out into the world. But there’s no doubt that he is a fantastic sales men. And he has really figured out the passive income sales world. Now, I’m not going to endorse everything that Clickfunnels or Russell Brunson does. But he did come up with this. So I’m giving him props where props are due. So a value ladder is essentially looking at the products and services in your business, and structuring them in a strategic way where one thing leads perfectly to the next thing. So think about rungs on a ladder. So the first rung of a ladder would be a very easy commitment for your consumer something like I’m even talking freebie at this point, like an opt in. Or you could consider what some people call the tiny offers or you know, a self liquidating offer, which is essentially one of these like $27 products that are it’s a very easy commitment. And people don’t struggle to put their credit card down when it’s less than $100. Or even in some cases, less than $50. Right? Like those are easy, yeses, just like an opt in is an easy, yes. So that’s like your first rung of your ladder. And the whole goal of either a freebie or a very, very low ticket offer is to just get somebody in the door, so that they can test and see what you have to offer. It’s like creating a relationship based on a decision, right, as opposed to me consistently showing up and giving you marketing, marketing, marketing, it’s you making a decision, I want something from you, me delivering that something to you, and then you consuming it. And if you like it, just like we know the old adage, it’s much easier to get a repeat customer than it is a brand new customer. So once you have somebody in your ecosystem, it’s much easier to sell the next thing. So what the value ladder system does essentially teaches you to break apart your services and products and offerings into value based price or not value based pricing but but essentially like rungs of value on a ladder. So you start with a free or a low cost. And then maybe you go you go up to like 100 or $200 product, and then maybe you go up from there to lead them to the next step to, you know, maybe a 500 or $1,000 product and then you maybe you go up from there and you maybe have a small mastermind or one on one group coaching offer that’s essentially a larger ticket offer because of course the access to you gets greater as you move up the rungs on the ladder. So that is a value ladder in its essence is essentially breaking apart your services in a logical way that goes from low cost or free up to the highest paying offer that you have

Kat Schmoyer 4:40
something to think about and we’re going to break this down even more fully all but just a little something to throw out there with a value ladder. The value ladder is for you as the creator. You were you were sitting there saying okay, here are the products that I want to create or I have created. What’s the product flow? How do I do Get somebody from this product, then to this product, then to this product, you can have consumers bounce around, like you might have somebody that actually works through your value ladder from the way that you created it, like starting with that bottom, you know, low cost or opt in, and then, you know, all the way up to the high ticket. But you can also have somebody and Megan and I have both had this in our businesses who comes in with, you know, and purchases a $9 or $20 product. And then their next purchase is like a $2,000. You know, they like they like are all at no like, and it’s want it like that can happen. So this isn’t to say that you’re controlling the order in which people purchase people will still make their own decisions naturally, like they’re going to pick and choose. But for you as the creator, their strategy and how are you offering them said products, and are you making sure that they’ve really tackled the results that they want enough with like values one and two, before jumping up to like that third ring on the value ladder, and you’re able to walk them through that strategy, through your email marketing through your funnel, some things Megan and I can talk about to make sure that they’re following the steps that you’d like them to follow.

Megan Martin 6:11
Essentially, creating a value ladder is creating a sales funnel through your entire suite of offerings in your business. So a sales funnel, specifically is going to be most successful to you if you have a starting point. And you lead them to one specific product in the end that you’re selling them to, right. So whether it’s an opt in, or it’s a low ticket offer that you’re starting the funnel off with, when you get to the end, which is the pitch of a funnel, typically you’re gonna have the most success when you offer one product. So by creating a value ladder, what you can do is create this, you can connect like almost like a train of sales funnels, right. So you go from freebie or low ticket to offer one or wrong to on your ladder, if that makes sense. And then after they consume that next product, once they make that next commitment with you, they are more likely and primed perfectly to get to the next offer on the on your ladder, right. So now you can now you can sell them less of like trying to convince them that you’re the right person and more of, hey, you just went through this product, or you just went through this transformation by purchasing this product. Now I’ve got now I can tell you that there’s a new set of problems that are coming your way. And so I have strategically created this other product that’s rung three or rung four, or wherever you’re at on your ladder, to say, Hey, this is the product that’s going to help you with this brand new set of problems. Or maybe it’s not a brand new set of problems. But maybe it’s Hey, now you’re at this point in your journey, you could probably really use some more customized support to get you to the next level and whatever it is you’re trying to do. So that creates an opportunity for a higher cost product. And really, you know how it is, as a consumer, you latch on to creators, right? I latch on to creators, there’s certain people that when they put something out, I’m going to buy it, because I trust them, and I know them, and I have loved the experience of being in their products. And that is the power of a value ladder because you can create more and more products that are perfect for the customer that you already have in the door to continue to serve them while also serving you and your business. Absolutely.

Kat Schmoyer 8:33
This is also really perfect for those of you guys listening that already have a handful of digital products, but you don’t feel like you have a strategy on how are you connecting those dots. So creating that value ladder or another way that we can even call it I do this with my mastermind girls is a product flow, where we just look at what are all the products that you have, and what is the flow, which one ideally would be the first one. Okay, now, what’s the sales sequence to get them to the next one? What’s the sales sequence to get them to the next one, and then all the sudden, there’s your strategy, right? It seems a little bit overwhelming to think like, Ah, I’ve got eight products in my shop and like, well, let’s just break it down slowly. And think about all of those products that you have, and what makes the most sense for that person to walk through.

Megan Martin 9:17
I think this is if you’re listening to this and you’re brand new to creating anything in your business, but I feel like the value letter is talked a lot about in the digital product world. I think it can apply to a service based business as well. But I know we’re heavily talking about the digital product world but if you are brand new to the digital product world and you want to create some sort of value ladder or sales funnel like this, I would really really encourage you to put your blinders on and not create an entire shop worth of products because what cat is saying is what if you already have a huge array of products? How do you connect the dots that may or may not be possible, right? Like I think sometimes people Look at people’s digital products, shops, and they see all of these different products. And they think, Well, that’s what I need to do to be successful. But what you don’t see behind the scenes is how those products are actually built in a value ladder, and how they’re built to serve one thing after another after another to the same customer. So it’s in your best interest to start with one product, and not have this like pressure that you need to come out of the gate with five different things. Because you’re going to see success here, if you can figure out what the key product is to begin with to start the funnel, you know, and you have to we talked about this in the last episode, you’ve got to test different ideas and focuses and topics to figure out what is the right one that your customer base wants. And then once you figured that out, that’s where we can build a value ladder from, you’re going to see more success doing it that way, as opposed to like throwing a bunch of different products out into the world and then trying to connect the dots later, when sometimes you can’t connect the dots.

Kat Schmoyer 10:59
Absolutely. And I feel like I’ve seen this in my own business where I almost created the value letter backwards, like I didn’t intend to it just I started with coaching and my mastermind and these higher ticket like somebody needs to be invested, right, like they’re spending a little bit more money, they’re spending more time and then I built backwards. And so my digital products, my $9 calendar is an entry point in my value ladder that ends with please join my mastermind, like if you really look at my like all my product flow in the way that I have those funnels built out on the back end. So I want that to be a permission slip for you guys. Like if you are newer at this and like just to the whether it’s the digital products as a whole or to thinking about your products in a value ladder format, don’t think you have to have it all figured out right now start putting out some of that content and then seeing what’s going to work well. I had no idea two years ago that my $9 calendar would do what it did, both in terms of sales and like engagement and just brand awareness and be the starting point to that value ladder, I had no idea for me, it was like a fun, I really want to create a calendar like this is a low cost offer, I need more of a tiny offer and my products sweet. Let’s do it and see what happens. And I’ve seen over two years, how I have now been able to tweak my value ladder because of that. So permission slip, you’re not going to have it all figured out right? Now, you’re going to start to see what sells, because that’s what will tell you what your people want. And then put your strategy hat on and think about, okay, if this is selling and this is selling, how can I help them in the interim, to get them even more prepared?

Megan Martin 12:35
I think that’s so smart. And I have a similar story, except I didn’t work backwards, like you worked from highest ticket to lowest ticket, right? I like started in the middle of my ladder, which is super interesting that, you know, I started with my membership, which is if you look at my value ladder that is smack dab in the middle of my value ladder and then I worked backwards from there. And now I can look forward from there, if that makes sense. So I saw my membership as the middle of my ladder, I realized that there needed to be a product prior to my membership, my cut my my members, and my subscribers would be best prime for my membership if they had actually done a certain thing, which is create a digital product, right? So I created a course that walked them through the step by step by step to get to be which is published a digital product, which is Prime’s them to be in my membership where we market and sell that digital product. Right? And so from that course, then I continued to work backwards and thought, Okay, what options do I need to create? What content do I need to create to get people to the next rung of the ladder? Or is there another product. So I created a suite of templates that if you want templates, to create a digital product, you probably want to learn how to create a digital product, which you probably want to sell that digital product. So you can really start anywhere in the value ladder, which is so so true. And give yourself that grace to not have it figured out because again, it’s that concept of testing. Don’t set yourself up for failure by creating an entire value ladder based on something that you don’t know anyone actually wants to purchase.

Kat Schmoyer 14:13
Right, right. Right, absolutely. Just put some content out there paid content. And I know that the value ladder can start with a free like with a freebie with an opt in a lead magnet, whatever you want to call it. I really want to stress to you guys like put something out there that is more than that tiny offer format. Because I do think that especially right now, with so many digital entrepreneurs, there’s a difference between somebody downloading something for free and being willing to put their credit card down. And just like Megan said in the beginning, if it’s less than $100, less than $50, even less than $20. They’re like, like they’re more likely to put their credit card in but you’re getting even more of a micro commitment from your people. And like yes, I want this. I’m ready to be invested in. There’s also then ways that you can get really strategic with like bumps and upsells. And even more things you can do on your end as a digital product creator, as your value ladder progresses, if you’re getting that buy as that first rung on the ladder.

Megan Martin 15:13
Yeah. So one question I get often cat, which I feel like it’d be interesting to talk through here is, I literally just had a live call on my membership. And we talked about this concept, how to how, I would love to hear from your perspective, how do you ensure your products don’t overlap in your value ladder? And, and or can they overlap? Ooh,

Kat Schmoyer 15:36
that’s such a good question. Okay, I want to I’m super curious to hear like your feedback, my first thought was, I feel like they can overlap, I feel like that actually could make it a really organic and natural value ladder of having overlap in certain content make sense in a little bit in this course, a little bit in that course, or talking about it. And one or the other. I know, I do that with mine with a quarterly cure. That sort of a middle of the ladder. For me now, it used to be the beginning, the quarterly curious my like, signature quarterly planning framework, but I talk about it, or I share some of the parts of that process in some of my other mini courses as well, because it’s a natural fit. I will say, and this is not to sound sleazy. But I will say that from a marketing and like selling standpoint, y’all it’s also really helpful because then you can be name dropping your other products, when you are talking about it. And again, it’s not you’re not doing it in a salesy way, you’re not just trying to get that credit card, you’re really trying to say, Hey, if you have this, if you’ve liked this, I also talk about blah, blah, blah, and blog planning, or I also talk about this on the ultimate Trello template, like, then you can just remind your consumer, oh, I also have these other things. And then they’re going to remember, oh, yeah, cat can help me in these other areas, too. So I feel like by having a little bit of overlap in the value ladder, it makes the content feel really organic. As it flows, it also is easier for you to mark it, the steps in the process.

Megan Martin 17:06
I think they’re, I think you can do it either way. I like I don’t think there’s either a wrong way. I think it’s depending on what you like, back to the personality conversation, like, what feels right to you as a creator. So for me, I am like, just as a person, the way that I learn, I’m very step by step by step by step. And so for me, as an educator, that’s how I approach teaching, I like things that make sense and go in chronological order to get me to where I need to be in the end. So for me, as a creator, I don’t have as much overlap. My products are more like here, step one, which leads to step two is product two, which needs to step three, which is product four. But I don’t think that the overlap concept is bad or wrong. I think it just makes more sense based on your strengths in your personality. Right. So for you, you’re also moving people up, I think when you have an overlap model, you also have to think through like you’re not just moving people through content, you’re moving people through access to you. So right you teach your calendar is a quarterly calendar, which is the same thing that you teach in the quarterly cure, you teach how to plan on a quarterly basis, which then moves them to what your mastermind? Mm hmm. Right, which is, and I’m sure in your mastermind, do you go through quarterly planning with your mastermind people, right, yes. So it’s all the same topical information, but the access to you changes, right. So you get a calendar, and you get zero access to you. It’s a printable printed out, I gave you a little resource about where to take it and how to do it, boom, you’re done. End of product, which moves them to the quarterly cure bundle, which is a course or a masterclass, I don’t remember how you structured it. But that’s more access to you, you’re literally getting your face on camera you’re teaching, right in a video, there might be emails associated with that. And then you move to a mastermind, which is like a major upgrade and access to you. Right, I think that’s one that is such a smart way to build a value ladder. If you are all in on a specific topic, like you want to go all in on your expertise on that topic, which is you’re a prime example of that cat.

Kat Schmoyer 19:28
I also I think that’s a really interesting point, Megan, I feel like it’s also helps to think through how what content you’re talking about and a value ladder, like I think it makes a lot of sense that yours is a to z, because I mean, you can’t like you can outline somebody like here the first steps to creating a digital product, like and you’ve done that and you’ve done that really well and like here’s the course to do that. Okay, now we need to set like market and sell your digital product. So go here and this is where we’re going to do that. And yours has more finite like structure, which is super interesting when we go back to the personality is you don’t like structure yet the way that the products and the value ladder is very structured. Mine is more this overarching. I want to help you do dreams and daily. So I want to help you have like make your dreams happen, while also not being stressed out on a daily basis, we’re going to use quarterly planning, we’re going to use blog planning, we’re gonna use Trello, like, like little things that help with the overarching theme. So within that an overlap in the value ladder makes the most natural sense. So for you guys listening, think about what are you teaching? And is it something that is a little bit more structured? Like Megan, where there are true like step one, step two? Or is it a little bit more like mine? Where Yes, I do like to think I have strategy and steps and we’re starting with one product and ending with another. But there is going to be some overlap in what they could purchase at what point or what entry point there is because of just the theme of the topic that I teach on?

Megan Martin 20:58
Yes, I and I think it’s also looking at your customer, and what level of support they need throughout the whole process, right. So if your customers, if you know like to your core that you love serving people one on one, you really love connecting, like talking with people, you’re probably more geared towards something like an overlap model. Especially if it’s more like in the coaching space, I would say that is more of the overlap model. But for me, even though I don’t like structure based on our Enneagram conversation, I do like freedom, and I don’t like feeling chained to people. So by having in points, it’s like, okay, our relationship is Oh, like to all my customers, I swear I love you. But the point is like that is good for me to be able to have points to say like, this was what we committed to together from a customer and educator perspective. And now I fulfilled that. And I don’t have to feel the stress on me personally, that I’m like not showing up or not doing enough,

Kat Schmoyer 22:04
right? No, it’s so interesting to like factor in value ladder with personality, we did not plan on taking this all I promise, but in there, but there’s the strategy in that, right. And for me, I love like coaching, my mastermind and my integration like all of those high touch points with me like that’s what I love, I love those zoom one on one calls where we’re like really digging into the strategy of one person. And I know my clients who have walked through some of these smaller products of mine to get to this end point. So they have some of that knowledge already in their toolkit, you know, and they’re bringing some of that to the table when we’re having these conversations. And so, for you guys, when you’re assessing a value ladder, thinking about what do you like and when you don’t like and what do you want people to do, you want people to have a lot of access to you. And if you’re more like Megan, then don’t create a value ladder where the end result is coaching, like don’t create my value ladder, if your personality is more like Mega, like, everyone’s is going to be a little bit different based on what you like, and then how your audience is, like interacting within the products that you have.

Megan Martin 23:09
I think it also opens the door for you to create what I know you call the parking lot list, which is like when your your your ideas go nuts, you know, but you only have so much time in the day to create something or anything. So for me, I, I do think that I could bring value to the table as a coach or more like group focused content. But I know that in my current season of life, like I just cannot, I can’t commit to that right now. Like I would not it would not be healthy for me and it wouldn’t be a great end result at this current moment in my life. So it’s like my value ladder is not done. And I think that’s something that you can also like rest in if you are in a season of life where like you know, you have ideas that you could accomplish or that you want to go for at some point like you can like press pause on the value letter, it doesn’t have to be fully complete to have a successful business. So I know that there’s a couple more rungs on my ladder that I might jump into when my kids are all in school. And you know, I have more than five hours in any given week to get stuff done. You know, and so I think giving yourself the grace that like value letter doesn’t need to be something that’s like start to finish done and perfect and the next year and I think also giving yourself that grace like we mentioned that you don’t have to have it all figured out in order to start creating some sort of like sales funnel structure. Absolutely your business. You can also like change your mind to right like so say you I think it’s easier to start in the overlap model. Because you’re you have you know one concept or one topic that you’re diving into at different levels of access, but you can change over time to right like so digital lab, my membership covered Are are what I was trying to let it cover was creation through marketing, sales, all the things of a digital product business. But what I realized, like a year and a half into the membership was that the creation phase really doesn’t fit here in this membership. And I need to walk someone through more of a course format, which we talked about in that last episode, I really needed to create more of that like step by step, like structure system, whatever you want to call it, to make to get people from A to B, right before they could get to C, D, E, F, and G in the membership. And so I saw a hole in my own product suite, not just in the market, but I saw a hole in a void in my own product suite that my customers needed help with, which naturally, I could siphon off and create a new rung of the ladder. So that can happen to you, you can realize you can be creating something and then realize, hey, maybe part of this should be its own product, and reshift and like shift and make tweaks, and it’s okay, I feel like sometimes in the digital product world, people think that like, if they put something out there, it can never be changed. Like that’s the way it is for.

Kat Schmoyer 26:06
Right. Right. I mean, we feel that way about even our services, I think there’s anything it’s like, Nope, this is how I created it. This is how it needs to stay. And it can absolutely more if I think I mean, Megan and I have both been having like private, you know, conversations around new products we’re both planning to create this year, and using our value ladder as a foundation for that, like, what do we feel like is missing and our current value ladders? What do our students asking for? What are other ways we can help our audience and it I feel like it allows me to take that parking lot list of all those crazy ideas, and give me some sort of lens at which to look at them. Because some of the ideas I have, they’re not going to be a good fit for, you know, whatever reason, but then some things I have will be a good fit. Um, I want to back up for just a second Megan, I would love for us to hone in on if somebody listening has a product and they’re thinking, Okay, I’ve got a product, I’ve got a couple products, how do they figure out where it is on their value ladder? Because like with you mentioned, digital labs kind of in the middle? And you know, revenue ripples like underneath that I know where my calendar and quarterly, like we’ve kind of figured out where they are, how does somebody first start thinking through? Well, where is this on the value ladder? Do I need a lower cost? Do I need a higher cost? Like, how do they even create that?

Megan Martin 27:25
I think you need to think about a sales funnel in general. And that how it works, you need to get leads in the door in order to pitch a product, right? So I would think through for you, first of all, looking at whatever product you have, and are you hitting the sales number that you want to hit? Are you getting enough people to actually purchase the product, if you want to see increase in sales, maybe you could create a lower ticket offer or some sort of opt in to get more leads in the door to be able to sell to more people? I think that’s like the easiest way to think about this. Again, I think there needs to be a little bit of like flexibility on this, like, where should it be in the value ladder? I think that you need once you have a product and that product is working and people are seeing the transformation that you’re promising. You can choose to go up or down, right? Like you can make a choice. Do I want to create a higher ticket offer? Or am I ready for that? Do I want that commitment of what a higher ticket offer might mean? or would I rather go lower ticket than my offer, and try to just get more leads in the door with a lower ticket, right? So I think you’ve got to decide for yourself where you’re at and your commitment level. And then also have some of that grace that we just talked about as things might need to shift a little bit as you introduce new products. But for me, that’s why I like the step by step by step ladder for me logically to think through. Okay, where is my what is my current product do and what transformation does my current product provide? Then I can think through? Is there some sort of problem or issue that my customer has, that would make them most successful? While they are going through the product that I currently have? Right? So a very clear example. I just keep using my own examples because I can’t make things up top. But so like, for example, I have the course revenue report teaches you how to create a digital product in 30 days, right? So a lot of people are going to be thinking about well, I don’t know what idea. Like I don’t even know what I could sell as a digital product like this sounds cool. But what in the world like what is a digital product? I don’t even know what I could sell right? So I created a free quiz. Based on like a few questions you go through it gives you an output of what type of digital product you could sell. That is a rung on my ladder, right? That’s like a freebie. Then I have then I think created a set of templates. Okay, so if I can give you an easy answer a quick, easy answer, that’s what a low ticket offer should do, it should be able to quickly and easily solve a problem without a bunch of hullabaloo. Right. So for you, it’s printing a calendar, literally sending it sending a calendar to a printer is That’s it? That’s the answer, right? And like reading it on your door, and like starting to see your business in the sense of quarters. That is what the calendar does. It doesn’t solve a huge, gigantic problem in somebody’s life. But it gives a quick win, right? What is the quick win that you could give somebody that’s going to prime them for the next rung on your ladder? And so if you can think of it that way, if you can think of how, what either if I’m going up, or I’m going down my ladder, what is the product I’m working on? And how is it priming them for the next product? That way, you’re not creating lots of different things that don’t actually string together?

Kat Schmoyer 31:00
Right? Right. Absolutely. And also, considering when we were talking through the course versus membership conversation, we talked about how sometimes we feel like we have to just give so much in one product, I feel like the value ladder, at least for me, almost gives me this permission, slip of no in this product. I’m teaching them this when and then in this product, I’m teaching them this when versus feeling like the signature course, or the signature thing that you know, has all of this stuff wrapped up in one that might be everything you know, about said topic, but also could feel a little overwhelming on the consumer side of things, trying to dive into 50 plus hours of content, right? Whereas if you can break that apart and have it set up in your value ladder, you’re still teaching and giving so much value, you’ve just made it smaller chunks. So your people can actually consume and implement one step at a time.

Megan Martin 31:54
Yeah, I mean, think about yourself as a consumer, like I think about myself, how many products do you purchase? And you don’t actually consume the whole thing? Right, right. Like, it’s, it’s it’s embarrassing how many products over the $1,000 mark I’ve purchased, and I haven’t finished it. Like, I’m just going to be honest with you, you know, yeah. And those are the signature, Big Kahuna products, you know, and you can’t get through them as a customer, it’s very difficult takes a lot of personal motivation. When you’ve running a business at the same time, that can be really difficult. So just thinking through yourself and your own consumption habits can help you like, realize why the value ladder is so magical, because it helps people achieve and get real results in small chunks. Right. And then if I get a result from you, I am more likely to purchase the next thing, right? Because I have any positive experience with you. If I’ve purchased something from you, and I don’t consume it, because I’m totally overwhelmed. And I run out of time or I put it on the back burner. Guess what, even though it’s not your fault as the creator, that I didn’t finish it, what is my experience with you? It’s negative, I spent $1,000. And I didn’t finish your course like, right. It’s not my fault. It’s my fault. But that is always going to be in the back of my mind. No, I can’t purchase this thing from her. I didn’t finish the last thing from her. Right. Right.

Kat Schmoyer 33:20
Right. And that’s not what we want as the creator. Right. So I think, again, it’s we’re not saying that having like a larger course is a bad thing within your value ladder. It’s not at all like that could end up being like the end point for some of you, you know, maybe that is what it is. And that, please do that if that is where it’s looking like your products are kind of shaking out to fall. But I I want it to be more of that permission slip for those of you listening, myself included, that get overwhelmed with how much do I put in this product. And if you think about it from a value ladder standpoint, you can probably break up your entire Google doc outline right now into two maybe even three products depending on how you broke it out. Just like Megan example with the digital app. It started with creation to selling and then she decided nope, creation is going to now become its own thing. And this is just going to be selling and that has worked really well for her and something like that could work really well for you too. Yep.

Megan Martin 34:16
Any other thoughts on value letters?

Kat Schmoyer 34:19
I don’t think so. I love talking about this. So I’m used to it is to strategize a little bit about just the flow and how it works. And if you guys have questions as you all are listening to this, definitely reach out let us know if there’s ways that we can like dive in. And in other details in future episodes, let us know that too. We have a little bank that we keep with questions that we get from you guys for future episodes, so we’d love to do that.

Megan Martin 34:46
All right, friends. Well I hope this episode has kind of sparked your creative mind to think through how can I structure my products and offers in a way that can naturally continue to sell to the same People and continue to serve them in better and better and deeper ways. Let us know if you enjoyed this episode by chatting with us on Instagram. We’ll link our Instagrams we’d love to DM chat with you guys but until then we will catch you in the next conversation

Transcribed by https://otter.ai