Megan Martin 0:00
This is talking small business with Kat Schmoyer. And Meghan Martin, a podcast for creatives who like to keep it real about what it actually takes to grow an online business.

Kat Schmoyer 0:09
We’re competitors turned to biz besties, who chat daily, and now we’re bringing you into the conversation.

Hey, y’all back with another episode of talking small business, this is one that we might get slightly spicy on, I don’t know, we’re gonna see, we’ll see what happens a little a little warning for everyone out there. magnin, I want to talk about hiring a business coach, talk about some examples. And some things that have happened in our businesses when working with a business coach, but also things that we hope happens for you, um, both of us offer business coaching. So we love working with our clients, and we love that like kind of one on one high touch approach. And I thought it would be really helpful to just really dig into what does it look like to hire a business coach? Should you hire a business coach? On? How do you know if you should hire a business coach, there’s just so much to unpack here. And I’m excited

Megan Martin 1:10
to talk about it. I am too. And yeah, I think it will get a little spicy. But I think what’s important is for us, like for you to know that Kat and I both offer coaching in our business. And so we offer coaching from the perspective of Of course, like wanting to help our clients, but also, we’ve experienced a lot of coaching. And so this conversation is sort of like the the past and the present all wrapped up together. And I think as well as talking about, you know, how, how to know when it’s the right time and all of those questions like also, talking about why hiring a business coach is important. And what you should actually expect from a business coach, not just it, it might be different than what what you think you should expect. So I think actually, we should like tell us a little bit about what we’ve done in terms of our own hiring of business coaches, cat just like people have perspective of where we’ve been and what we’ve done. Absolutely.

Kat Schmoyer 2:15
Megan and I have both invested a good bit in our business, not just like financially, but also timewise. You know, like investing in programs, whether that’s the one and done course to a coaching program to a one on one coaching opportunity to a mastermind, we’ve all, we’ve all literally done it all I feel like at this point, and there is value in all of that, like I firmly believe in investing in education, and have learned a great deal from those investments that I’ve made. And I’ve learned what I should do, what I shouldn’t do, things that I like things that I don’t like how they best fit my personality within each of those programs. And I feel like there’s a time and a place for all of these things. Like sometimes the course is the perfect thing. Sometimes a coach is the perfect fit. It just sort of depends on several different factors in your business.

Megan Martin 3:08
Can you give us some of those factors? Because this is where my brain immediately goes to around this conversation is like, is it? Should you choose something like a course? Or should you choose something like a coach?

Kat Schmoyer 3:18
Yeah, so my opinion is if you are looking at something that is heavily results driven, like you’re like, I need this checklist, I need to know how to do this, a course might be a great fit for you, especially if it’s a course that allows you lifetime access, you can rewatch it whenever you need to. I have several courses that are marketing specific SEO Pinterest that I know not only do I have lifetime access, but they’re being updated, right, because those programs change those systems change. They have been so helpful in my business not only for me to take but then I can pass them off to a team member. Like one of my assistants right now she handles all of our Pinterest, I purchased a course she watched it. Now she can one and done that for me. And that has been very, very powerful for me to have that tactical practical, I can turn back to it anytime. So I’m a firm believer, and if it’s something like that, go the course route. When you know that you have that content and can literally get the checklist or the results or the How to for coaching, I feel like that’s when, if I’m in a point in my business where I need clarity or confidence, and I need an expert to speak into my life. Maybe I have the know how to create a digital product. Maybe I know how to create my next course. Right? I can you know start from A to Z and get it done. But I need some help figuring out my launch strategy or like when should I do it or what about this like I’ve got a couple of questions like that. But it would be really helpful to have somebody who’s been in my shoes before offer clarity and then give me confidence to move forward in that specific area.

Megan Martin 4:57
I love that you talked about like tactical practice. Coal is better served in a course. And I absolutely agree. And from my own experience in hiring coaches one time, I hired a very, very expensive coach, I’m talking like, five figures expensive. And I walked away from that experience. And to this day, I’m like, I don’t really feel like I got a five figure worth of return on that investment, which really stinks. You know, as somebody who is, my goal was to, like, grow my business, you know, I just I don’t look back and think that I saw the return on investment I was hoping for. But when I look back, I realized that the big mistake that I made is that I was hiring that coach for tactical, practical, help, like teach me how to do XYZ. And they, that coaching experience did provide me tactical and practical help. But it was so like laser focused, and to one very specific concept and part of my business that now years later, I can’t look back and say, Hey, that helped me move along. Because honestly, it did it. And in that, especially when you are seeking like tactical practical help for something like in this case, I had a product and I was trying to learn how to increase sales. And so as if we were very specific, we were talking about a very specific product, well, now I don’t even sell that product anymore. Like that product didn’t really take off. And it’s not the business coaches fault that my product didn’t take off. They were, they were helping me try to create strategies in order to sell that product. Well, that’s not on them that I didn’t do enough research. And I didn’t do enough work to make sure that that product is worth me seeking out that level of coaching investment on. And so I would just say that I absolutely agree with that. If it’s something more tactical and practical, like a step by step formula, or learn how to do this strategy, or learn how to implement this next tactic, I would really encourage you to get a course over hire a coach.

Kat Schmoyer 7:16
And an avid like disclaimer to or like a caveat, I guess, in certain situations, like I’m thinking about Pinterest, for example, like I actually hired a Pinterest coach at one time to step in. And like I took a course, I felt like I knew what I was doing. But there’s always more to learn, right? Like I’m not the expert in that specific area. So I hired kind of like a one time coaching call to be like, Alright, can we audit this, like what’s happening? Am I doing this right? Should I do something different and that was really valuable for like that sort of kind of one time one and done situation to have her step in and make sure that I was doing things properly. So that’s not to knock a coach who is an expert in a specific thing that like there might be a course on it. But maybe you need a little bit more of like a customized approach. I just have found that when I think more of like long term coaching like a six week or 12 week program, or six month mastermind like something like that, I don’t necessarily find a lot of value, if that is tactical, practical. I prefer that to be clarity and confidence in just allowing me to take all the knowledge that I’ve already learned and figure out what to do with it versus Teach me more new things.

Megan Martin 8:27
Yeah, and I think that we should put another caveat in here that I know when I coach I do share tactical practical advice. Like if a coaching client of mine brings up a question of course, I’m going to answer it to the best of my ability and my based off my experience, and I’m sure Kat you do the same with your coaching clients in your mastermind, like you teach them how to do certain things. But you know, at the end of the day, you’re not going to get in the weeds of teaching them. These framework strategies and tactics. If they really need to get in the weeds, they probably should take a course to really understand like on a detail oriented level.

Kat Schmoyer 9:07
Agreed. Agreed.

Megan Martin 9:10
I would love to hear like can you tell us so if someone were to hire you for coaching cat, what would that look like so that they could get some sort of understanding because I think we all know what it’s like when we buy a course we buy a course we open it we press play on module one, we start learning and we do whatever they say to do in the course but what does it look like to hire a business coach and what does that experience feel like and so that they can understand what they’re walking into when you when you say getting clarity and confidence.

Kat Schmoyer 9:41
I like to say that I’m in the back pocket of my clients. I’m just that extra support. So whether that’s you know, looking over copy or helping decide like what should the next goal be like, hey, maybe I should do one of these three things in the next quarter like which one is the most strategic Decision like, I’m there to, again, help provide clarity and confidence for me personally, because my background is so heavily involved in quarterly planning. And like my type a miss and my integrator, like that is where I lean heavily into for the coaching portion like where’s Megan Megan’s a great creator Megan’s so good with ideas and like helping you find that I don’t think that I’m good at that I want you to come to me with an idea, I want you to come to me and say, Hey, this is what I think I want to do. I’m either just not sure how to do it, or like which direction I should go. And I’ll help you make the strategy to activate on that versus saying, like, Oh, we just need ideas. Like I’m not a good creating ideas person. So actually, that I feel like brings to like a new point, Megan, of, I think when you’re going to work with a coach, first of all, you should absolutely be asking like, what’s the process? Like, what will it be like if I work with you, but you should also understand that every coach is going to be different based on that coach’s personality, that coaches skill set, the way that that coach structures their program, like I know for both Megan and I like our coaching programs, just like Megan said, like, we’re not going through like modules of content, like you’re not going to jump on a zoom call and see a slide deck, you know, we’re not going to teach you in that way. But maybe another coach has a program that’s like that. So you need to uncover like, what do you want as the client out of the coaching relationship? And what does the coach bring unique to the table that could allow you to get whatever it is that you’re trying to get Done? Done?

Megan Martin 11:36
Yeah. And it’s interesting that you bring this up, because we are so polar opposite You and I were like your strengths is in helping people create a strategic plan and how to, you know, have a line list essentially have two dues in order to take action on that plan to accomplish that goal, right? Where my coaching experience is so different, like I, I am more of the coach where I’m gonna like sit back, I want you to tell me what’s going on, don’t paint the scene for me, and then I’m gonna challenge you in that scene, and I’m gonna, like, poke the holes into what you are, like envisioning and imagining and kind of bring you to reality that’s like the kind of person that I am. And so I think it really it, I think coaching is one of those like hyper personal industries, like people literally, are hiring coaches, because they like the person,

Kat Schmoyer 12:33
right, and I think it should be that way, like this person is a strong voice in your business, a striker should be, you know, like you are, gosh, you’re getting a lot of advice on like the direction of your company, like you need to like this person, you need to have like similar worldviews and similar perspectives on family and faith, in my opinion, like I just, I feel like this person is so directly tied to you in your business, that there’s naturally going to be overlap between just like personality things, and the the, the strength that that coach has in business that you might need at that particular time.

Megan Martin 13:10
Which brings up the point that I think it’s really important that before you hire a coach, you should be doing a little bit recon work on like, Who is this person? And what kind of business do they run. And I will say that a different coaching experience that I have been a part of, I really liked the person, like on a personality level, I really clicked with that person and really shared a lot of the same like core beliefs. But there was a major discrepancy in my life, vision and goals and this person’s life, vision and goals. And, and so I actually, like loved the coaching experience, and I walked away, and I thought it was a really positive experience. But now even looking back from that perspective, I can say like, well, I learned quite a lot. I don’t like I wouldn’t necessarily hire that coach, again, because we had such different views on some business things that I can’t reconcile if you know, so again, like while I wouldn’t turn for, to a coach for the tactical and practical specifically, I would still think that you would want a coach that lines up with tactical and practical strategies that you want to achieve or also goals that you want to achieve. Right.

Kat Schmoyer 14:38
Right. So how can we like how do you find that, you know, before working with someone, like if you could go back and redo it, Megan? Like are there certain questions you would ask would you like seek out more referrals of people that had worked with this person? Like what are ways that as a like, student you as somebody that’s looking to hire the coach, like how can we uncover some of that before we spent a lot have money and a lot of time and then then potentially, like disappointed,

Megan Martin 15:05
I think I would I think if I looking back in that experience, I knew that person was followed them, and had been privy to their content, but I feel like I should have done a little bit more digging and their content. And again, none of their philosophies or business strategies or goals were bad. But now realizing who I am and what I value, we weren’t on the same page for some of those things. So for example, I and I’ve said this before, like, I I’m not out to be a millionaire, like I honestly, just I don’t care, honestly, I’ve really I’m not trying to build an empire here, I’m just trying to take care of my, my family and make an impact. And it’s not on my to do list to walk the two comma club, you know, and so as crazy as it sounds, that coach was a millionaire. And that is, there’s nothing wrong with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with making million dollars. But that puts us on two different playing fields. And I don’t have that kind of drive within me to make this mega Empire, you know, and so looking back, are now looking forward, essentially, like, if I make the decision to hire a business coach, again, I’m almost going to hire someone more on my level playing field, because they probably resonate with me more, and understand me and my values more. And I want to learn from somebody who also understands and resonates with my values, if that makes sense.

Kat Schmoyer 16:37
Yeah, I think that’s so interesting. It’s almost the opposite. Well, it’s not the opposite of what I was thinking, I just, there’s obviously value and, and hiring people or surrounding yourself with people who are smarter than you, right? And so in that sense, it’s like, well, gosh, I want to work with a million dollar coach, because clearly they know what they’re doing. Like, clearly, I’ve built like a million dollar business, and like, they’re doing something right, like, teach me some of the right thing that you’re doing. And that’s a lot of value in thinking through that. But there’s also what you’ve said, like a lot of value and like, but do they understand my level? I feel like I thought that as you were talking, I was thinking about the fact that over my career, I’ve had two different men be my business coaches. And there’s pros and cons to that there was value and like, our genders are different. So therefore, like, we have different perspectives, like men and women are just different. We’re just hardwired differently. And so there was some relief in those conversations of like, okay, yeah, I’m just like, overthinking this, and his brain doesn’t operate that way. And he can help me like, get the clarity that I want. But there was also a disconnect in those situations, because they weren’t moms. And so their reality and the way that they were operating in their business structure was vastly different than the way that I was operating in mind, because I’m a mom. So that was something that I’ve just thought about several times since working with them. And it’s not to say I would never hire a man to be my business coach. But it’s something to consider like, hey, what can I take from this, like, can I apply it to my situation, knowing that my lens is naturally going to be different, because I am a mom. And so the expectations around motherhood in business just look different for me than they do for them.

Megan Martin 18:21
Yeah. And again, I don’t knock hiring someone who’s different from me, it was really interesting to sit in and learn from that person, just like it was really interesting to learn from everybody I’ve ever learned from. But when we come to these investments, and typically coaching our coaching investments are pretty high. Honestly, these, these, I just feel like if you’re gonna make a really big investment in your business, that from my experience with coaching, I feel like I would be really really intentional next time around to make sure that this person understands who I am, understands the roles that I’m filling. And also maybe they don’t have to be on the same level playing field with me but maybe I need to be more honest which brings up another point but maybe I need to be more honest as a client about what my goals are because I feel like it’s really easy in a coaching relationship as the client to feel like you need to almost put on a front I guess. I mean, I wasn’t lying at any point but I mean like almost like you feel like you’re like in the presence of somebody who’s amazing and like you need to like put on the face of like, you want to be here and you want to be amazing,

Kat Schmoyer 19:30
you know, right, right? No, I

Megan Martin 19:31
mean that you want to be impressive. Yeah, right. I mean, there is that like pressure as a guy and, and so maybe I as which is a great point, what I’m leading to is like from a client perspective, we need to be really intentional about being clear and confident ourselves and owning what it is that we want and what it is that like, we envision and not feeling like we’re Not cool enough or not worthy enough of this coach if it’s not you know go shooting to the stars and moon you know

Kat Schmoyer 20:09
yeah i think that’s such a great point because it can be intimidating it can be really intimidating to be you know in a room with somebody or virtually you know with somebody and you’re like in a true coach client situation I like to think that you’re really like laying it all out there like you’re being raw and vulnerable and like here’s what’s working in my business here’s what’s not working like let’s talk about the hard things like you’re likely looking at numbers and like numbers make people feel like very uncomfortable potentially like sharing some of that or looking at some of those things. So yeah, you can absolutely feel like as a student we want to put on some sort of front like I want them to like like me and like be proud of what I’m doing and like think I’m like a cool person but then that can affect how we respond and the ways that we learn

Megan Martin 20:58
cat Have you had an experience where you have been able to see that hiring and coach absolutely did change your business or or help grow your business

Kat Schmoyer 21:10
I have I have I think that for me again, I know I said this in the beginning but I just like believe it so much goal for me hiring and coach has always been more so about confidence and clarity than about let me get something in particular and it’s in those situations that I’m like okay yes like they really did help me like fight the clutter of my own ideas or the noise in my head and like help me focus on this is what I’m working on. Or like this is where I want to go I will say though that like even though I feel like I’ve had really great coaching experiences I’ve also had not so great coaching experiences and I think those coaching experiences I even though I knew that it wasn’t results based right like even though I knew I wasn’t necessarily getting the like how to I expected some sort of results like I expected exponential revenue growth because of something that I learned from them or like a launch we were working on or whatever and so when those expectations that I sent right like purely meet like they they didn’t promise me I’m like we’re definitely going to do this I just in my head is like well if I’m investing in this I hope I’m gonna see this as a result and it was in those situations that it fell flat for me at but I think that’s twofold I think that could be setting better realistic expectations in the beginning of the experience right like with a coach you’re like hey, here’s what I’m expecting to happen kid is this a reality? Like I need you to tell me point blank right now Could this be a thing? And then if they say yes and it doesn’t happen that’s on the coach in my opinion, like they’ve promised something and they that promise hasn’t been fulfilled so either they promise something they shouldn’t have promised or something else happened. So anyway, I think it comes down to like the expectations of the results from the experience

Megan Martin 23:07
which is super interesting to bring up because I feel like a lot of times within like coaching sales pages and stuff that I read you see these like results based testimonials that are just sometimes I don’t even know a word like just outlandish, like yes, you know, and so it sets you up for this expectation that you are going to be able to replicate these results which I think from now we were talking from the client perspective before but now I think from the coach perspective, this is really important that while testimonials are so powerful and yes, if you did help somebody get results, that’s great, but we need to be really really careful about the testimonials that we use and also really careful about when we are engaging with our clients setting clear expectations that no somebody might have had an amazing result. But what were the layers behind that that you may or may not have influenced right?

Kat Schmoyer 24:07
Absolutely. I feel like as a coach I don’t know you tell me your opinion Megan but I feel like for me as a coach I like to push the testimonials that are more about the feelings invoked like working with me and like the emotional response and even though I don’t feel like I’m a light and fluffy personally I feel like we get the job done you know we come in we’re This is the plan that we’re going to create however results based for me as a coach it’s really it’s scary like i i think i there’s only one testimonial that I can think of right now on my website that has something like an actual number like this result happened. And it’s true like it really did and I’m proud of that but results based scares me because there are so many other layers that factor into throwing out numbers like that.

Megan Martin 24:55
Absolutely. I mean, I think that’s across the board for all testimonials but There are instances I think when results best based testimonials make sense. But I do think that you can be intentional even if you do have results based ones to also pepper in ones that are more about, you know, the the feeling that someone got when they worked with you or the you know, inner transformation that someone got from working with you like making sure to be intentional about intermixing these types of testimonials so that people don’t have this expectation. But even even so even if you do have results based testimonials, I still think and an initial engagement with somebody, we want to be clear to say, hey, like, you know, and maybe that’s as a coach, maybe that’s being strategic to like in initial inquiry or whatever to say, what are the results that you’re there you’re after right now. And being savvy as a coach to say if somebody is like, I want to make a million dollars with this launch. And first of all, if you don’t make millions of dollars with launches, then probably you should probably not save somebody like I want to make, you know, $50,000 with this launch, I’ve got I have no audience, I’ve got a few friends that have heard about what I do. I’m super excited. And I’m going to like, launch in three weeks. So I need your help. That would be us as a coach saying, hey, I’d love to work with you. But we you’ve got some like expectations that are not realistic. And so if you’d like to move forward, I’m going to challenge you to you know, change the strategy and change this plan a little bit. But being super honest that like you cannot, you cannot help people reach absolutely unrealistic expectations.

Kat Schmoyer 26:51
breed agreed. And that, like you said, that’s, I mean, it’s on the student to explain what those expectations are. But as a coach, we can pull that out, you know, we can flat out say, What is your expectation for working together? Yeah, I also I wanted to bring up something. And I’d love of course, your thoughts. Megan, what is your opinion? Well, actually, before I asked this question, let’s ask the question we said we were going to talk about in the beginning, how do you know if or when you should hire a coach? Let’s talk about that.

Megan Martin 27:23
I think if I’m just gonna speak to my own personal experience, because I don’t I don’t know the right answer to this question. But for me and my experience, I’ve hired business coaches, when I feel like I have been like plateauing in business or I’ve been like stuck at a certain level and I can’t figure out how to push forward. That’s been pretty much the main reasons that I’ve hired a business coach. And again, I’ve had experiences where that I thought pushing forward meant I needed to learn a specific strategy. And I couldn’t find a course that either a I knew who the teacher was and so I didn’t want to just invest in some random course that I didn’t know who the teacher was and I was being impatient and when I could have just like signed up for somebody’s email list, waited a couple months and like bought to know them and decided if I wanted to purchase from them type of thing, but I was being impatient in that time period. And so that was the one where it like didn’t really pan out well but then there was another time where Yeah, I just I felt like I had hit a certain plateau and I couldn’t figure out how to get to the next level and that next level was pitiful pivotal for my family and my business because we were trying to get Jeremy to walk away from corporate america and so I wanted to figure out like I need to like break the next glass ceiling in order for him to do that and us to feel confident and again, have that clarity that like I’m on the right path, or if I’m not on the right path, what should I do? Can you help me figure it out? Hmm. I agree with that

Kat Schmoyer 29:01
wholeheartedly. I feel like the times that I’ve invested in a coach it’s really been more about the clarity. Like I just I feel like I know what I’m doing but I also have some other things over here that like I’d like to try but I’m not really sure like what’s the best one and for me, the coaches that I’ve hired have been where I thought I wanted to go so just thinking about like, hiring the person smarter than you you know, like how can I get to that level or like achieve this thing like they’ve done it so now I need them to show me what to do. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. So okay. That is our experience for when you would potentially know if like hiring if you’re at a point in your business to hire a coach now I would love to talk about should you have multiple coaches or like have a coach and also like, take a course or have a coach and like be in a mastermind like should you like be like double dipping or triple dipping in various forms. have education at once?

Megan Martin 30:02
Oh, this is a good question. Yeah, I would say the answer depends. First of all, I do not think that you should have multiple coaches at once like multiple, I don’t think you should hire a coach and then hire another coach or I don’t think you should hire a coach and then join a different mastermind that you’re paying for lead by somebody. I just I think you’re going to get naturally some mixed messages based on those people’s experience and those people’s beliefs and values and all the things. And that’s just really difficult to navigate. Which one should you listen to agreed 1,000%? And then I think the answer about the course and coach at the same time, I would say that I if you are taking a course currently, or if you’re considering purchasing a course currently, just purchase the course like do it. If you want to finish the course, then go hire somebody if you want to like it’s going to be again, it’s it’s difficult to learn from multiple sources at the same time, even if they’re different things. The only caveat to this answer is if say, you’re in a coaching experience, and your coach says, Hey, I know you want to learn Pinterest, this is not the best use of our time to like me to walk you through a Pinterest strategy. I’ve got this great course for my friend over here, like I know her, I trust this course or whatever, like go take this course, that’s a different scenario, that coach knows the content can speak to the content and help you through it as you go. So in that case, I think it’s fine to take a course and a coach coaching experience at the same time, but I wouldn’t necessarily do the opposite. Yeah,

Kat Schmoyer 31:38
absolutely. What about when you’re working with a coach? What is the what is a situation that has happened for you where you’ve like, I know, you said you’ve had some past experiences where you were like, yes, this was like, this was a great experience. We’ve also both I mean, we’ve both had that we’ve both had experiences where it hasn’t been so good. But like, Is there something that for the good experiences that made you be like this was good because of this, does that make sense, like something that a coach did that you were just like, man, like, as a student, like this was really an awesome part of the experience,

Megan Martin 32:17
I would say that the one experience I’ve been a part of that I walked away, just feeling really positive about was the fact that this person over delivered and was very giving, when they didn’t have to be, and I’m not endorsing that, if you are a coach, then you need to give things away for free. But I think there’s a certain I think as a coach, you can be a little bit flexible with the tools that you have in your toolbox, you know, so maybe not promise everything under the sun. And then if a student or a client of yours comes to you, and you know, you really, they’re really like struggling in a certain thing, and you have a tool in your toolbox that you built that you could give to them. That’s going to go like I’ll never forget this, my coach gave me a course for free. And I did not ask for this at all was like I brought up a problem that I was having, and they just handed it to me. And I’ll never forget that. And I’m a lifetime fan because of that. And you know, again, like I’m not saying you have to do stuff like that. But that overdeliver alone was such a big eye opener for me as a coach as well of like, Can we be a little bit open, open with our hands, to our clients who are paying us a lot of money, you know. But in terms of transformation, I would say that I walked away from the best coaching experience just there was two things like the things that I didn’t necessarily agreed with, with that coaching experience. It helps me gain confidence and like a backwards way because now I’m like more confident and what I think is a better idea or a better strategy. And I can own that, you know, and like working through that with the other with the other coach and realizing like, I don’t really jive with that, or I don’t really think that’s right, like allowed me to get more confidence and just move forward with what I think is right. Which also gave me a sense of competence that like I don’t necessarily have to have a coach to do something, you know, like I can I can figure this out for myself, in some instances, but then also like, I didn’t necessarily going into the experience I think I needed the confidence to i didn’t i didn’t i don’t ever go into an experience thinking I need confidence which I think is interesting that you say it’s all about clarity and confidence because I don’t ever go into a situation thinking it’s about I need to get confidence. But that’s really what I walked away with. I walked away with a sense of like confidence in myself. And in my business, which, like naturally came through with every touchpoint of anything else that I started putting out,

Kat Schmoyer 35:06
right? Yeah, I feel like as a coach that’s like a coach’s dream, right is to know that, like, the person you worked with, was able to leave that experience and like feel that empowered, right? And feel that like motivation of like, Yeah, I like this. Is that the direction? I’m going? Like, this is what I need to do.

Megan Martin 35:27
Yeah. Well, I’m sure your clients feel that about you. Andy. Alright, Kat, tell us like, quickly, last thing, straight answer. How do you know, from your perspective, if it’s the right time to hire a coach,

Kat Schmoyer 35:45
I think you know, when it’s the right time to hire a coach, similarly to what you said, where if you feel like you’ve like hit a ceiling that you can’t quite crack. And so again, having that like either extra clarity or confidence to like, continue to press forward, could be a really great time for you to think about making that investment. I will say though, this is a little bit of an interesting turn for our conversation, I guess. But I will say that, like I know for you and I, like neither one of us have invested in a business coach and like over a year now. And instead of investing, I’ve leveraged my like friendship with you. I’m in a great like, not, that sounds awful. I’m like, let me like go ask my but like, we’ve just leaned into one another. And like, I feel like I’ve gained confidence and clarity and like just being able to bring questions to you about like, hey, Megan, this is what I’m struggling with, like, which one should I go with right now? Like, what do I need to do with this? Or do you think this is the right move and being able to like brain dump and verbally process with another business owner and for you, and I like, going back to at the beginning, when you talked about like hiring somebody that’s, you know, the million dollar business owner or hiring somebody on a similar playing field like world, similar playing fields. And so we understand what life is like right now, both on the personal side and on the business side. And so, I know this is like a little bit of a different spin on the conversation, y’all. But I would just encourage you, if you’re sitting here thinking like, man, maybe I need a coach, or maybe I need this, like, maybe you don’t like, maybe you need like a really great business friend who can like be that person for you. And as somebody that is a coach, this is not knocking coaches, like I love working with my clients. And I’m not opposed to hiring a coach like maybe that’s the 2022 thing for me. I don’t know yet. But I do think that like sometimes you don’t necessarily have to have that coach, if you have a really great friend who is like willing to sit in the trenches with you. And like for Megan and I, I feel like it’s very two sided. Like there are days when it’s like Megan’s inbox more like, I need to, like verbally process this, this, this or this, like all things and then there’s day where I’m like, here’s a 10 minute Vox message, like I need to send it to Megan and like we’re both doing that back and forth. So it’s really mutually beneficial for both of

Megan Martin 38:04
us. Yeah, well, and I think also thinking through seasons to like when, like I said, When breaking through that ceiling is essentially you have a goal that you want to meet, I think that would be a great time to hire a coach, when you have a goal. And you feel like you don’t have the support system that’s going to help you achieve that goal. Even if you have a great friend like you still might your friends still not, may not be able to like help you achieve that goal. I think that’d be a great time to hire a coach. But I but we’re in a season like where we’re sort of maintaining, you know, and in that season of life, like you don’t need a coach to push you, you can just talk to your friend, you know, like, Yeah, but But yeah, so it’s a nuanced conversation. And I don’t think that there’s a right or wrong answer of should you hire a coach, or should you not hire a coach, but I will say that coaches really do a coaching experience, like, they really do help you get confidence we come we keep coming back to this, but they can really help you get clarity, and feel confident in the strategy that you’re in, or that you’re chasing after. And if it’s not the right one, they can bring you the clarity that you need before you crash and burn. And, you know, it’s awful, you know. And so it’s it is like it’s such a great resource. And if you’ve never hired a coach, I would absolutely encourage you to do a little bit of your own research, see if this might be the right fit for you if you have a big goal or a big dream to accomplish, because I guarantee you there is somebody out there that can speak into your life and can help walk alongside you to help you make it happen. So I hope this conversation was interesting. It was interesting for us to have as coaches and as clients who have had, who have hired coaches. But yeah, we love the coaching industry and we’re here for it, but until next time, we’ll catch you Conversation

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