Megan Martin 0:00
This is talking small business with Kat Schmoyer. And Megan Martin, a podcast for creatives who like to keep it real about what it actually takes to grow an online business,

Kat Schmoyer 0:09
where competitors turned to biz besties who chat daily and now we’re bringing you into the conversation Hey, y’all, welcome back to a another episode of talking at small business cat here. And gosh, Megan and I, this is gonna be a fun episode. I mean, every episode is fun, but this one is particularly fun. For all of our Enneagram lovers. This one is for you. I am an Enneagram three. Okay, mechanism Enneagram seven, and a lot of small business owners are threes. I’m not saying every small business owner is a three. But there are a lot of threes in the small business world. So we are putting Megan more in the hot seat this time talking about being an Enneagram seven in a world of Enneagram threes, like what do these differences look like? How do Megan and I just based on our true personalities, operate our businesses differently for good and for not so good sometimes. And just you know, being real with you guys about some of the things we both love about our certain personality types, and then some of the things that you know, might not be our favorite things, but the Lord gave them to us. So they are yes, for better or for worse part of our personality. If you’re not familiar with Enneagram at all, I will link some resources below you should take the test you can likely find a free one online Enneagram threes are called to be achiever. They are high achieving they I don’t even know how to like describe myself, um, the Enneagram is said to so when you first take the test and you’re reading your results. If you feel almost uncomfortable reading it almost like man, I feel so seen. And I also don’t love how much this thing is seeing into me, that’s likely your Enneagram. And so, threes are very high achieving, they can bold those a little bit, they have really strong opinions. Again, I’m saying all these things like these are what I do, these are things that I do. They’re not necessarily always type A, so you don’t have to be type A to be in Enneagram three, I am also type a so that like planner organizer comes out in me while also wanting to achieve now. I don’t have to be perfect. I just want to be number one. Okay, I’m just gonna that’s just how I’m just gonna say it because that’s how Enneagram says it. That’s also true. Okay, so I’m no Enneagram ones are the perfectionist. I don’t have to do things perfectly, which means that I sometimes can do things faster than maybe an Enneagram one because I’m not necessarily looking for protection. However, I do want it to be achieved really, really well. And I like to win. So those are all of the bad things about Enneagram. Three, if you resonate, you have to let me know, send me a DM But Megan, tell us about Enneagram sevens.

Megan Martin 2:55
Oh, man. If you’re a seven here, I just want to say, man, we need we belong together, we just need to have our own little group of seven entrepreneurs. Yeah, so sevens are totally different from type threes. And we are the spontaneous, fun loving, energy, energetic, enthusiastic people of the world. We are literally the Enneagram seven nickname is the enthusiast. We are always on the go. We love to juggle lots of projects. And we are not achievement driven. Like our three friends. I mean, for a three and from what I have learned I’m very very, very good friends best friends with cat at this point. And so I feel like I like understand your brain just because I’ve heard you talk so much. But you are driven by achievement, right? Like a goal for you is like the gold mine. Like you love it. Like the the thought of being able to like cross that goal off and being like, I didn’t just cross it off. I like crushed that goal. Mm hmm. Is like, yeah, it’s your thing. Right?

Kat Schmoyer 4:16
Right. It just Oh, got it. Right.

Megan Martin 4:18
Yes, for me. You know, I don’t care if I sit. It doesn’t matter to me. Like, the thought of crossing off a gold doesn’t make me feel good. It’s like okay, great. Now, where’s my next thing that I’m doing? Like, it’s just it’s not a thing to me. It doesn’t drive me to accomplish a goal. What drives me is just exploring and having fun and doing what feels good in the moment, which is very interesting as an entrepreneur, especially in this you know, creative bubble that we’re in. So I’m like a little nervous to be in the hot seat today because I’m about to like reveal all of By not strategic choices.

Kat Schmoyer 5:06
But again, we’re talking like good and not so good. You’re like, there are ways Magan I joke a lot that we’re like yin and yang. But there really are ways that it for all my threes out there, like find a seven, like have a seven in your life. Because there’s a balance there are there’s just like reminders and like refreshing like, okay, it’s not all about what did I just get done? It’s not all about that achievement factor. There are like other other nice things going on in life, or just hey, what do I want to do for fun? You know, what are what are things that I can think about in that? realm? So, okay, Megan, with being the seven. Let’s just talk through, like, what does that feel like for you when goals aren’t necessarily a focus. And I mean, we’ve talked about this even before, which is kind of type A versus type B in terms of goal planning. So goals aren’t necessarily a focus for you, you are more driven with this as fun and you want to do things that like, truly are so fun for you day in and day out. So how do you have business strategy with a mindset of but I want to be fueled by what feels fun right now.

Megan Martin 6:13
Yeah. So I have figured out based on my personality, that and as much as I love you, and I respect you, I absolutely cannot listen to you like the three and cat, your three. So like, there are things that I have to just say no to. And I think this applies to no matter what personality type you are. And looking to the people who are educating you, you need to understand you need to know yourself to your core, which is why I love personality assessments. I know some people are like, You guys are so crazy. Like, this is like not helpful. But actually it really is for me to be able to know myself and to know my motivations, my strengths and my weaknesses, it helps me make better decisions on who I am going to listen to, and what I’m going to implement in my life and in my business, right. So because I know at my core, that I am not somebody who thrives in a very constricting, scheduled and structured environment, I cannot apply, for example, cat, your quarterly planning and your planning process in its entirety, I absolutely cannot do that. Because I can’t have 12 weeks of plans or whatever it is already mapped out for me, like, I can do it, I can actually write the map. But I cannot live like that. Because that takes away all spontaneity out of my life, right? So I can have goals in the sense of I’m like, okay, for example, in February, I hosted a bundle. So I knew I was going to host a bundle in February period. Like I didn’t map out every single thing that needed to be done and when that needs to be done, and what day I was going to send this email and what day I was going to, you know, design the graphics, I don’t plan my life that way, which might sound horrible to a type three, like they wouldn’t like not knowing what they’re supposed to do and when they’re supposed to do it. And the to do list that they have. And it’s color coded. Right? Like they would probably feel you’d probably feel stressed if you showed up to work one day, and you had no idea what you were supposed to do that.

Kat Schmoyer 8:14
Like would you feel? Would that make you feel? 100% 100%? Yeah,

Megan Martin 8:19
right. Like, for me, the idea of having a list of 20 things that’s mapped out perfectly with timing and color coding, and all of the things like that makes me feel stressed. Because I don’t like structure. If you look at my I’m also like a fan of the Myers Briggs if you like look at what my personality type on the Myers Briggs, it literally says in like the first three sentences you repel structure, repel it. I don’t just not like it, I literally like will do what I can to push it away, I will sabotage myself when I feel stuck in a structure that I cannot keep up with.

Kat Schmoyer 8:55
Right?

Megan Martin 8:57
And so I figured out that there that I have to say no to certain things, although I know there may be wisdom behind certain systems and business and what people are teaching about system, I have to say no, and figure out based on like, my strengths and my weaknesses. So I’ve sort of created this non system, if that makes sense. I I’ve created almost a non system. But what it is is like applying the concept of club being a clutter free person to business. So for me having like detailed mapped out plans, and you know, goals and tasks and milestones, and all of that feels really constricting to me. So instead of doing any of that I don’t I literally I’ll put like the project name. And that’s my goal. Like that’s the extent of planning that I do. And I’m smart enough to be able to figure out what needs to be done. So I can create a to do list but I don’t map it out in certain days. I don’t say I’m on Monday. I’m going to do this on Tuesday. I’m going to do that. I just didn’t No, I’m working towards a goal, that goal has an end time. And I need to do something today. So then I’ll just go to that task list and pick what I want to do that day. And it is me moving the needle. It’s just not me moving the needle in a structured way. So it allows me to say, hey, I have no I’m a spontaneous person as a seven. I love being able to wake up and decide when I’m going to do that feels fun that day. So I’ll go to my list that I know I need to get done. And say to myself, What feels fun, what feels exciting? What What am I going to be inspired to do right now? And I’ll do whatever that task is in that moment. And not worry about having this like perfectly chronologically logical, like task list of events? Does that make sense?

Kat Schmoyer 10:46
It does it does. I feel like it? Well, first of all, it definitely makes sense with your personality, to be able to say every day, okay, what do I what do I feel like doing based on the bundle or based on this new website, or based on whatever it is? That is the main project that you’re working on? I think it’s also interesting to point out that with your business, the way you’ve overall structure, your business is project based, more so like you have some reoccurring because you have the membership community. So you have digital labs, so you have some things that are, you know, on a regular basis, but because you’re not a service provider, you’re not necessarily having as much of that reoccurring, that a wedding planner or wedding photographer might have who’s also potentially a seven.

Megan Martin 11:33
Absolutely. And I think one of the things that is like in my clutter free non system is not over committing myself, I’ve learned that in my life. Like when I was a service provider, I absolutely did not belong in that world. Like I just especially as a wedding planner, it was not the right fit for me as a seven. Okay, I’m just gonna be honest. Um, but I have found for me, digital products helps me thrive as an Enneagram. Seven, because for the most part, I’m not tied one on one to people and their time and their deadlines. I’m on my own time and my own deadlines, and that is super freeing. And even in that conversation, I found that deadlines are super stressful for me as an Enneagram. Seven. And so I’ve worked to remove deadlines out of my business. There are certain times like, for example, that bundle that had a deadline, there was 30 people involved in that. And we all need to do something at the same exact time, like there’s no getting around a deadline and that example. But I am so fiercely protective of when I put deadlines in my business. So you won’t see every single month, a big project needs to be done. Or you won’t see more than like maybe four or five deadlines, total for an entire calendar year on my business plan. Because I know that if I do more than that, and I commit to more than that, then I am going to go overboard and is going to stress me out and it’s not going to be fun. And I’m going to want to quit my business like that is just what I’ve learned over the years. Which is like someone like you, you might look if you had a calendar, and there was only like four deadlines for 12 months, you might feel like I’m not planning enough or I’m not doing enough, right. And you might feel like something’s wrong with you. Or you know, you might want to quit your business because you don’t have anything to look forward to. Right.

Kat Schmoyer 13:26
Right. Well, I think it just goes back to creating a business that works with our personalities. And so for my business, I mean, I’m heavy on client work right now, yes, I have digital products, but even my digital products, I streamline them differently. Because I put those deadlines in there. I also have a team. So then there’s deadlines, because things are being delegated out to a team or to a client, like there are just a lot of other people involved. But my personality is opposite and that I thrive with deadlines like I have, right, literally weekly deadlines for clients. And I like thrive in that environment. And I know myself and I know that I actually do some of my best work when it’s like the deadline is here. Like I just work really, really well in that environment versus feeling the stress of the deadline. Not that I’m never stressed out with deadlines. Yes, that’s just normal stress comes to any personality type in business. But I think ultimately, this conversation isn’t just about are you a seven? Or are you a three, because you guys listening are going to be any in any rooms or one through nine. Like who knows what you are, maybe you don’t even know what you are right now. But it’s more about how can you create a business that allows your personality to thrive. So you’re not hitting burnout as quickly. You’re not feeling stressed out with the things on your plate and you’re genuinely able to leave that nine to five or work in that home environment that you want with your kids with your husband, whatever that dream is for you and do it in a way that just makes sense for you.

Megan Martin 14:53
Right? Right. Which is kind of what I was saying to you when I was like I have to say no to listening but it’s not that i It’s not that I Say no to listening to you, or threes or whoever it is at all. It’s saying, okay, safer this, it’s just such a good example that you teach quarterly planning, right. And so I’m a seven and I struggle with structure, it’s literally something that just does not resonate with my, the core to who I am. So it’s not saying what cat teaches, is not valuable or valid, or wise or worth listening to, it’s how can I take what cat teaches, know who I am to the core of my personality and apply what I know about myself to your strategy to make sure that I am, you know, it is helping me grow and stretch and learn to be able to implement your system. But I’m also not going to burn out with your system, or I’m not going to feel overwhelmed with your system or stress with your system by trying to copy exactly it is the way that you do it, because you are a total different personality than I am, right, which has, it’s been so freeing for me from an education perspective to be able to like, look at an educator and maybe you know, their anagram for like, in your case, we know your three or maybe you can kind of like guess what their personality type is and figure out, okay, do is what they do and what they excel at, based on the core of their personality. And if so I have to understand that and accept that I might not be able to get the same exact results, because I don’t have that personality, and it’s not going to come as easy to me. And it has been so so freeing from a consumer perspective, to be able to help me make good decisions with my investing as well in the education space.

Kat Schmoyer 16:40
I think that’s also a good reminder that even though and I know you and I both say this on certain sales pages and talk about you know, rinse and repeat, like copy paste, like you can do what I do, and I believe that I really do, I wouldn’t say that I know Megan wouldn’t say that if we didn’t create something that we felt like no, you can take this and implement this into your business. And we’ve tried to create it in that way where it is copy paste double. However, your your personality comes into play. And so as a business owner, feeling that empowerment and like freedom to use your smarts to and say, Okay, I’ve got this planning template, or I’ve got this like, digital template for like, you know, whatever it is that you have this, isn’t it, maybe it’s not necessarily working the way you thought it would. So how can you tweak it slightly to work for your business and your personality? And I feel like that can just make you an even better business owner because you’re able to take something and implement it in a way that fits your business even more powerfully than how the Creator created it based on their business. Right?

Megan Martin 17:41
And I think even thinking through like enjoying your business, like how can you set up? Or how can you create or structure or build your business in a way that serves your strengths and not fights against your weaknesses, I feel like for the first, maybe like seven years of my business, I was constantly butting up against my weaknesses, because I was trying to put into practice what I was learning from all of these wonderful and successful entrepreneurs who had gone before me who but I realized after like really getting to know who I am from a personality perspective, we’re on the same playing field as me. Like, it’s just not possible, right? And so I’ve thought to myself, Okay, how can I build a business that I actually enjoy, based on my strengths? So for me as a seven, knowing it’s somebody who is spontaneous and enjoys just like, waking up and deciding what I want to do that day, it’s creating an entire system that allows me to do that, and thrive and it be okay that I do that, right. So for me, it’s knowing I can’t really take on client work, or if I do take on client work, it’s very, very minimal. And it’s never overlapping with each other. Because that would be highly detrimental to my mental health within my business, right. It’s also, even in the structure of my products, if you look at the products that I have. Some of them are like pre done, for example, I have a course it’s pre recorded, it’s done. There’s nothing that I have to show up and do in order for a student to successfully start and finish that course from A to Z, right. But then I have a membership, which is a recurring business model where I’m supposed to show up regularly and with new content, new things, new ways to serve my customers, right. But if you actually look at the way I structure my product and the way that the product is sold, you don’t know when you’re getting what like there’s only a couple things for example, this is very specific to my digital lab membership. When you join even on the sales page. The only thing that is very regularly promised is a monthly live call. That is the only thing that I’ve committed myself to in terms of how often I show up with specific types of content right, but you get lost have other things and I’m constantly showing up and doing new things I’m, we have guest expert calls that happen live, we do challenges in our group, we do lots of things every month, it’s just you’re not coming into it with a specific promise with a specific structure and schedule, I almost do like reverse style, where it’s like, you’re going to get access to all of these things that I promise on the sales page, but you don’t actually know what it is or when it’s going to happen. Right. So that gives me as a seven, the freedom to do what feels fun and what feels right. And when it feels exciting, and what feels relevant in the moment, as opposed to this structure that I’ve built for myself, that I can’t actually keep up with as the creator. So I think if you really get to know who you are, to the core of your personality, it trickles through everything from the systems that you create in your business, to the products that you actually put out into the world. And some

Kat Schmoyer 20:55
of that is going to be trial and error y’all like that’s happened for both Megan and I, in you know, I’ve been in business nine years, she’s been in business 10 years, I’m in, you know, offering things that either we quickly realized, or we realized, you know, down the road that like, oh, okay, this is getting hard. Like this isn’t necessarily the best fit for our personality. And again, our personalities are opposites. But there still been things that even as a three have been like, Nope, okay, I need to restructure this, I need to change how this is going to be. And then Megan has seen that in hers. And so if you’re listening to this and thinking through, you know, maybe you’re in a place right now, in your business where it doesn’t feel like you’re allowing your personality to thrive, I would take some time, if you haven’t done, you know, the Enneagram test, obviously, like take the Enneagram test. Strengths finders is also a really, really, really powerful one as well. And it’s strength. So it’s like a strength assessment. And you’re focusing on what are you good at? And how does that? How can that show up in your business. And I have found a lot of just help and kind of assessing how those strengths show up in in my own business. So take step one, it would be take some sort of personality assessment so that you feel like you have a better understanding of your personality. But then step two, I would just take a look at what you’re doing in your business and write down like go off of Megan’s like what’s fun, like literally answer the question like What is fun in your business? And make some bullet points like What do you enjoy doing? Like, what does that look like for you? And then start to think through how can you create either it’s services or products that allow you to do more of the what’s fun, and allow you to flourish in truly in all areas of your business?

Megan Martin 22:35
And also to let go of any guilt surrounding what’s fun for you. Yeah, right. So for like, for me, I felt guilt for years over the way that I run my business and who I am as a person in this entrepreneur world. Because again, there are more threes in the business world than there are sevens. Or if there is, I don’t know for sure that number is accurate. But the threes, you threes, first of all, let me encourage you like you are going to change the world like you are going to do it you’re going to have a vision and you’re going to go for it and you’re going to actually make it happen. So like pat yourself on the back. But for for sevens looking in on threes. There’s guilt there for us. Sometimes, like we look at them, we’re like, Man, I’m never going to be that kind of person. Like I’m never going to be detail driven. I’m never going to be this like achievement driven, goal crushing like, business owner, and a lot of the celebrities, I’m going to let you in on a little secret. A lot of business celebrities are threes. It’s because you guys are world changers and you’re you’ve got big voices, and you use them to help people there, a lot of business celebrities are threes, and it can just, it can cause this shift. I know for me and as as a seven like it causes me to look in sometimes when I’m in an unhealthy place. And just think that I can I can’t actually succeed as a business owner, because I don’t have this skill set are literally to the person I am at my core, I’m never going to be that. And so what I’ve had to learn along with creating a business that serves me and my personality, it’s also I have to let go of the guilt of the fact that I’m not a one through six, or eight, or nine, right? I’m a seven and it’s okay, I’m going to run my business and I can have a successful business as a seven structure in a way that allows me to thrive and let go of any guilt that may pop up. Like when you’re scrolling Instagram and you’re seeing you know, whoever sharing about their huge success when and you know that they are a different personality type than you like cheering them on. Encouraging them without it being guilt ridden for you. Mm hmm.

Kat Schmoyer 24:45
I think that’s such a great reminder. And for the threes. I feel like it’s just really helpful to point out like I jokingly said this earlier like every three needs a seven but like seriously all like go go find it be like who’s the seven be my friend or maybe not even just a seven, but just not a three. Okay. And I have a really wonderful, let me let me like disclaimer, because my friends who were threes are gonna, like, text me and be like, Yeah, I have some really, really incredible friends who are threes. And we, I mean, we are we’re very high achieving like that is just to our core what we are all about. And when you get a bunch of threes in a room, can you do something really incredible? Yeah, I believe that you can. But I think three is on an unhealthy level, there can be a lot of competition, there can be a lot of I’m not doing enough. There can be a lot of oh, well she’s got this next new goal, like what should my next new one be just a lot of that like back and forth. And so when you can bring in another perspective, right, like anything in our lives, like it’s helpful to just have another viewpoint diversify, who you are talking to, and who is speaking into your life and into your heart. And Megan has been speaking into me for years now, y’all for years, I am still a three, I will forever be a three, even with a seven so loudly in my ear. But it has helped me to remember what I am doing. And am I having fun with what I’m doing? And just because I’m achieving something, if it wasn’t fun to do, like, did I really want to do it in the first place and just allowed for a different perspective, that has been a breath of fresh air. And so for all the threes out there, like there are a good bit of us in our industry and for good reason. I mean, I do love being a trainer, I feel like we’re kind of like knocking three slightly, I do love it, like go achieve go do big things know what, just remember that there is another way to do business. And there can be a lot of value when we have conversations with people who genuinely just think differently and run their businesses differently and run very successful businesses. But differently.

Megan Martin 26:47
I think even on the flip side to like for sevens, I value having you in my life as a three I mean, I value you as a person, but I also value your perspective as a three because, you know, because I am the way I am and I’m very fun, spontaneous. And like, what do I want to do today driven, it can lead to making some bad choices, right? Because there’s a lot of times there’s not real strategy behind these decisions. It’s just what I want to do that sounds fun. And that’s not always good for me or for my business or for my bottom line. Right? And so having you in my life to speak into, hey, maybe we should think about this, right? Like, or, you know, you helped me like ground myself as like as a three being my accountability buddy, like you owe a lot of times I feel like you you speak into me and you ground myself, especially when I’m like, I feel like sevens because we are so like creative and spontaneous. We also can kind of go off the deep end with our emotions a little bit. And we can like imagine the worst. And I feel like as a three, you’ve been like very clear headed. You’ve been like a very, like, logical, clear voice of like, okay, this is how we can accomplish what you want to do. Are you sure you want to accomplish what you’re talking about doing? And is what you’re accomplishing? How is it going to serve you and I feel like you’re like constantly speaking into those categories in my head that I don’t talk about with myself, you know, I just think something sounds fun. And that’s not always to the benefit of me and my life.

Kat Schmoyer 28:23
So everybody needs a Megan and everyone needs a cat. I know that for you guys,

Megan Martin 28:30
though. It is but it just shows the point that like whether it’s whether you’re looking for a three or looking for another number, whatever, like getting an outside perspective of somebody, not only just somebody who does something different from you, or there’s lots of ways that you can diversify, who you put in your circle, right. But even getting it someone in your circle that is a different personality than you that can, you know, just shed some new perspective, new light on what you’re trying to do. And that kind of friendship, I feel like has just been so challenging in a fun and exciting way. Because it’s not just always like, Yeah, I agree with that. It’s like it’s learning how to create a relationship that is, is going to help you actually grow. Right. Right. And, and challenge you and move you and yeah, it’s been really cool.

Kat Schmoyer 29:23
Yeah, I mean, there are definitely situations for us where you’ll bring up an idea and I’ll say, Yeah, I agree with it. But then there’s also situations where, you know, both of us have counter acted the other one and then like, I’m not really sure, like, really thought about like X, Y and Z, but that’s what makes it work. I think and I wouldn’t want an accountability partner that just agreed with everything I said because I I don’t want to be the smartest person in the room. You know, you want to have somebody else that you really can like bounce those ideas off of so just some like food for thought for y’all with you know if you and your business either Like both listen to this, like maybe you guys can, like start to, you know, be open to in safe spaces, like have that conversation where you don’t always agree. Because your personalities are different because your viewpoint is different. And that’s okay. And there can still be like great conversation and learning that can happen when you’re both, you know, being able to present things really constructively and helpfully to one another. Yeah.

Megan Martin 30:23
Well, I think we could talk about personalities all day long. But to wrap this up, friends, I hope that this episode has been just inspiring for you and encouraging for you that you can run a business based on your personality, you can create a business that thrives, that follows your own rules based on who you are, and your strengths. And you don’t have to copy paste somebody else’s business just because they were successful, doesn’t mean that you are going to be successful in the same way especially if you are a total different personality. And really, really quickly I just want to say to my seven friends out there, I get you, I feel you and you can grow a business even though you don’t have the strengths of the the voices that are threes in the world that are telling you it you have to build a team you have to plan out in detail you have to have goals you have to do this, this this, this and this to be able to be successful. I want to just encourage you right here right now like someone needs to tell you that you can do this you can be who you are you can be spontaneous, you can be bright, you can be fun, and you can grow a bad a

Kat Schmoyer 31:36
successful business.

Megan Martin 31:38
Try not to cuss on this podcast!

Kat Schmoyer 31:40
on brand Megan on

Megan Martin 31:42
onramp. Um, anyways, I hope this is encouraging for you to hear. And we would love to hear what personality type are you and what do you do on business? Like come find us on Instagram, we’ll link it together. Or we’ll link it on the podcast show notes. But we’d love to like chat with you and hear what is your personality type? What do you do in business? And are you building a business that allows you to thrive from who you are at your core? All right with that we cannot wait to catch you in the next conversation.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai